Unlock a Healthier Version of Yourself Using the Enneagram
Do you know your “Type”?
And, no, I don’t mean the type of partner you’re attracted to!
I’m talking about your Enneagram Type! If not, you better listen in.
Today I have Certified Enneagram Coach, Chelsie Engle sharing her wealth of knowledge, insights, and experience all around the Enneagram.
In this episode, you’ll hear:
How her relationship with her husband led her to becoming an Enneagram coach because of how it changed their love life!
How to use the Enneagram to discover, reflect, and detangle your core emotional struggles, fears, motivations and desires.
See the Enneagram types as the 9 love languages to understand your current partner's needs at a core level.
Discover the common type pairings that she sees in relationships and how it’s related to your Growth Path and Stress Path.
What your “Wings” are based on your Enneagram type.
And she even tries to help me figure out which type my husband is!
Find out what services she has to offer to help you discover your type, deepen your connection to self and figure out ways to improve your current relationship.
Learn more and connect with Chelsie:
@eliteennegramcoach on Instagram
Chelsie Engle on LinkedIn
Review her website to learn more about her services https://www.eliteenneagramcoaching.com/
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Chelsie Engle is a certified Enneagram coach who empowers individuals to discover their true selves. With over 13 years of experience leading workshops and helping hundreds of people find their Enneagram type through her specialized approach, Chelsie brings a wealth of knowledge and expertise to her clients.
With a deep understanding of the Enneagram's power to facilitate transformational growth, Chelsie has worked with large corporations, small teams, couples and individuals utilizing the Enneagram to help clients break free from the constraints that hold them back and live a more present and connected life.
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TRANSCRIPT OF EPISODE
Molly Connolly (00:00.462)
Why hello there lady. Welcome back to reinventing the arena podcast. I'm your host, Molly Conley. Today's guests, Chelsie Engel is a certified Enneagram coach who empowers individuals to discover their true selves. With over 13 years of experience leading workshops and helping hundreds of people find their Enneagram type through her specialized approach, Chelsie brings a wealth of knowledge and expertise to her clients. She has worked with large corporations, small teams, couples, and individuals utilizing the Enneagram.
to help clients break free from the constraints that hold them back and live a more present and connected life. I am so happy and give a warm welcome to Chelsie. Thank you so much for coming on the podcast. Thanks for having me, Molly. I'm excited to be here. So you and I met last year during this virtual program that was put on by Smitten Singles called Unplugged. And you were the first session of the four of us. And I couldn't help but love your story.
about how you got started with the Enneagram and how that impacted your life. Would you mind sharing that with the ladies here today? Absolutely, I'd love to. It's one of my favorite stories. So prior to becoming a certified Enneagram coach, I was a teacher and instructional coach for 10, 11 years for the Des Moines Public Schools. And it was an amazing job. Just as many teachers, I had gotten to the point where I was kind of getting to the burnout stage.
At the same time, I was also going through infertility struggles and so kind of struggles at work and at home. And after finally being able to have my daughter through the help of IVF, I thought all my problems would be solved, right? Like I have the baby, I have the husband, I have the job. I'm supposed to feel perfect now, right? Cause I have the perfect life that I thought I wanted. Turns out, no, I still was riddled with stress, anxiety, having anxiety attacks.
migraines because I was just, I didn't know why. I was just stuck and I needed help. So I finally went to therapy and through seeking therapy, ended up finding a therapist who knows about the Enneagram. At that point in time, I had invited my husband along with me because I learned that it was more of a team effort for us to both kind of learn about ourselves. And so when I finally learned about my Enneagram type and his,
Molly Connolly (02:22.126)
Every single issue, problem, or thing I had taken personally within our relationship finally felt like, that is why. Because I'm an Enneagram too. I want to be loved, wanted, and needed. And he's an Enneagram nine. And he wants peace, to be at ease, restful, be comfortable. And there's so many things about our relationship that worked, and that was also in there. But all of the reasons why I felt rejected by him, which is a fear of mine.
all came to light and I was like, here it is. Like, this is why I no longer have to take things personally. And so I was just kind of hooked by that point that I wanted to learn all the types and eventually ended up leaving teaching and got certified in the Enneagram and now have just been using it, like we said in the intro, to help as many people as possible get connected with this transformational information. I love that. And as a fellow type too, I'm like, yes, I can relate.
I can't even imagine the impact of like going to therapy because I had mentioned before on the podcast that I have also gone to therapy, but being able to know about the Enneagram, I didn't know back then. I know a little bit because of you and how that just impacts, you know, just like my day to day sometimes when I think about these things. So before we get started, just in case there's some that are listening and have no clue, can you give the ladies like a brief overview or introduction to what the Enneagram is?
Yeah, absolutely. I would say it's a personality typing system, but more than that, it's a self -discovery tool. And because this entire system of personality that helps us to understand ourselves, what takes it further than other personality types is that it tells you why you do what you do. So as humans, we focus on our behavior. So a lot of times behavior profiles tell you like, you're kind, empathetic, caring. Those are behavior traits, right?
But with Enneagram, it tells you why. So what's motivating you from your subconscious causing you to then be having these behaviors and attitudes, the attitudes are kind of those inner thoughts that we can't see. So it just basically illuminates for you and wakes you up to all of the ways you're kind of subconsciously being driven and helps you to change that story that you've been telling yourself about yourself over the years. And instead of being a
Molly Connolly (04:43.182)
kind of a stuck personality type where you're put in a box. It actually frees you from the box that you've already been living in by helping you to wake up to yourself, right? And see all the ways in which these motivations, fears and desires have been driving you and gives you a path, a growth path to help you to find a more present and connected self through the levels of development. wow. First of all, the amount of knowledge and depth to the Enneagram
can't even be explained with just what you said. Like that's such a great overview, but like after attending your class, I know that there is so much more to it. And just as like a personal note, for the longest time, I didn't know what motivated me. I was always told by other people, money is like the greatest motivator. I'm like, it's not for me. And as a type two, when you brought it out of being loved, wanted and needed, I was like, whoa, that is sick.
That is me. Did not recognize it at all. But each and every single one has a different, like you said, motivation, fear, and what was the other one? I'm sorry. Yeah, so motivation, fear, and desire. So the Enneagram is ennea, meaning nine, because there are nine different lenses through which we view the world. Now, within the human experience, we can understand any of these nine things. The nine desires are not going to sound bad to any of us, right? And they're all
equal, there's no one type that's better than the other, like a one isn't better than a nine, isn't better than a three. So that's why they use the numbers instead of like words or names because we assign meaning and value to words and names, whereas with numbers, it's very much so. The type one is the type one and this is the motivation, fear and desire that they come out the world with. And we can understand that and we can maybe have times in our life and empathize with.
that desire, but it is not necessarily what is fully driving and motivating our core personality type. So that's what can be hard for some people sometimes too. They're like, well, I do want that. I'm like, well, of course you do. Everyone wants to be at peace. Everyone wants to be competent, successful. You know, I'm naming off some of the different types and what they want here. Each one, everyone can see that and go, well, sure, I want that. But once you get under the hood and go, but what is it that I, like, why am I doing what I'm doing?
Molly Connolly (07:02.222)
that kind of then, okay. So not everybody has that same lens. And then you can understand each of the other ones because there has been a time in your life where you've been like really driven for success or really driven to be at peace or whatever it is. And then, and like you mentioned too, about your partner. So what I love is how you brought that in, during our class. And I think this is a really, really important part for the listeners is
you know, discussing that part of your personal journey of how it impacted your relationship with your husband. Can you share more about that and like how that has improved, you know, just your relationship, communication, whatever it was for you two? Yeah, absolutely. And if you are, well, quickly say too, if you are new to the Enneagram, there are so many great podcasts and resources out there that overview the nine types. If you're like, wait, what is she talking about? Two, three, four. We're going to kind of talk more,
talk more shop if you will. So I'll try to kind of reference a little bit so that people know, cause if you're brand new, it might be a little bit, you know, off putting, but just try to picture people, you know, that may fit in these profiles. And that can kind of help you get into the system too. You can't type someone because you don't know what their core motivations are. And it's actually a pretty difficult thing to do, but you can kind of start making assumptions about some things and putting that together. So for me and my husband, like I said, I'm a type two, I want to be loved, wanted and needed.
Those are my core desires and my fears are to be unwanted, unneeded, rejected. And with that, there's also these motivations underlying it to vindicate claims about myself, to get others to respond to me. And so I go towards people, I'm a dependent stance type person. And that made so much sense to me. I'm like, yes, I move towards the person or the information or the thing that I believe is going to help me fulfill my desire. However, my husband as a type nine, he wants to be
at peace, at ease, restful. He wants to be, resist whatever would upset or disturb him. So there is kind of this, you know, not wanting to get into conflict, but nobody wants to get into conflict. None of the nine types want to it's why they don't want to. so I, I,
Molly Connolly (09:13.294)
I carefully talk about the, you know, being afraid of conflict because kind of there's, there's no one who's like, let me get into conflict, you know, it's more about this kind of pushing back on anything that's going to disturb me because I want to keep my inner peace and serenity and he is a withdrawn stance type. So they move away and they go internal and that was exactly what was happening in our relationship. He would move away and go internal and he would get, stay away from conflict and I would move towards and be like,
hey, I feel rejected here and then take it very personally. And because I'm a heart type, which is another aspect here, there's three centers of intelligence. I am very feelings oriented. And again, one of my things is to get people to express their, like I express my feelings to them. I want them to respond to me. So I was going towards him and towards him, he was getting like overwhelmed, running away further and further. And I felt more rejected and it kind of created this cycle in our relationship.
and it kind of never felt like we were fixing it and not that there's anything to necessarily be fixed, but I was like, once I saw these dynamics, I was able to kind of put my shoulders back and be like, it's not mine to do anything about. That is his personality. This is mine. It's not broken about him or me. Cause I would always try to get him to respond to me. Like, why aren't you talking to me? You know? And so the more I understood what was under the hood of his personality, I was like, okay. So.
That's why he's avoiding it. And also if I'm going to have a big emotional reaction, he's going to take that and it's going to mess with his piece. So I have to find a way to speak with him and come to his, come to the table with his point of view. And it just, it stopped me from some of my own bad habits, kind of pulled him into some of the habits that he probably needed for his growth path. And both of us were just able to kind of have better conversations with each other because the Enneagram was almost that third point in the conversation instead of blaming the other person for being some kind of way. Like,
I'm right and you're wrong. No, we're both right. We just have very different perspectives on certain things. It gave us kind of that tool to not take things so personally or just like for his case, like run away when he started feeling that way. And when he didn't need space, he did need space. I'll go, okay, you need space. I get it. It's not about me. You're not needing space from me. You just need some time to process and you have a different processing time than me. So it was just giving me compassion, empathy and perspective on his point of view.
Molly Connolly (11:37.038)
yeah. And the awareness just as using is at a tool. Obviously, once again, coming from a type two, when for me anyways, like I would build up all of these emotions and being like, okay, it's about to erupt and I'm going to want to express this and being able at that moment to express those emotions can be overwhelming for people. So that would make sense for someone else that's like wanting to turn inward and
being a feeling person, a feeling type, it makes sense too of wanting to express so much at the same time so we can get that a point across. So yeah, that definitely can see how that overwhelm and I know in my past relationships, I know I did that a lot because there was like no boundary for my emotions. Like I was already holding it in so much thinking I was holding a boundary and I was at my cap and just here we go. And can definitely see how
the lack of awareness of the other person's sort of processing and communication styles can also impact that a lot. So. Yeah. And I think like as true and real as our lenses twos are to us. So as real as it is for us, we want to express these emotions. We're driven to get these people to respond to me. Why aren't you talking back to me? You know, I need that response. I texted you. You didn't say anything back. I would have already responded. All of these things, right?
Well, they have different motivations than us and their lens is true and real to them. So as difficult as it is for me to step back and allow him time to process is as difficult for him to step to the table and have the processing with me. So I have to be willing to give and get, and it's not about like, why isn't he doing this? I know why, you know, cause a lot of times it's what I hear in my couples is like, well, if he would just, I'm like, well, from your lens, that's important. Right. But.
And that's okay. Your partner needs to know what your lens is so that they can see and love you. It's not about the love languages that we know now. It's about the nine love languages and really, really understanding your partner's needs at a core level. And so that you can give them that compassion, empathy and understanding. And then also turn the mirror back on yourself because a lot of times it's got something to do with your own core emotional struggle, your own core fears.
Molly Connolly (13:59.63)
motivations and desires, you're feeling driven to get your needs met and you could probably find a way to like, revise a little bit of that story you're telling yourself. And maybe for us to provide ourselves with a little bit of that love, attention and affection that we're trying to seek from others. And that's the secret to unlocking the healthier version of ourselves. yes, completely agree. And I almost feel like that is almost a secret for all types of, you know, being able to go within a little bit and figuring out what the core wounds are.
and having that reflection and going internal a little bit so that we can also self soothe because then we can self have our self care and self love and being able to still like build from a level of fulfillment and so satisfaction and then go back and pour our cup to other people in our lives. Absolutely. And once you take that time to stop and pause and be curious instead of reactive, you're already moving up the levels of development because a healthy version of any of the nine types is more curious than reactive.
is aware of their defense mechanisms and is seeing and wondering if they are using them in that moment, knows what their stress responses are and is checking in with, am I feeling stressed right now? This might not be the best time for me to come and have this communication with someone. Is this a wound of mine that I'm bringing to the table expecting someone else to fix or do something about? And if there is something I need here,
All of those things have then led me to the way that I can directly communicate those needs. For me as a two, that's really hard to do. Some people are better at it than others. Directly communicate the needs to my husband and say, let me be a little actually vulnerable here. I've noticed this about myself and I really need a hug right now. And it's like, but then like as a two, we're like, well, he should just know I need a hug. It's like, no, no, no. Like I need physical affection.
for these reasons. I've been trying to fill my own cup. I've been trying to think through things, but like I'm feeling a loss of connection. That's triggering a lot here. So it would be really helpful if I could just have a really big hug or can we talk about these things, have an emotionally intimate conversation. Again, it took me looking inside to see what those things were. It used to come out sideways. It used to come out blaming. It used to come out, you don't care about me, blah, blah. You know, just all the anger and, cause anger is an unmet need.
Molly Connolly (16:16.142)
when you can figure out the need that's behind it and express it in a caring, vulnerable way and kind of humble yourself to recognize that you're angry at them because you have a need. In a relationship space, that just completely changed the way we talked to each other, completely changed the way he was willing to trust me because he didn't think I was coming to the table with some kind of a conflict, basically. And he then would come to me
more often as a nine, he was afraid to come to me and tell me things that were on his plate that he thought might upset me or cause me to have emotional reactivity. And so then when I proved to him, no, you can tell me these things and I'm not going to, I'm not gonna go into my to like take it personally and feel like you're rejecting me and you don't want me just because you feel this way, you know, over the littlest things. And I never even realized.
how personal I was taking his feedback, but it's part of our motivations to vindicate claims about ourselves. So again, as I just unfurled more about myself, I was like, okay, this is more about me than it is about him. And like the frustration that can sometimes happen then is I'm doing all this work and they're not, but eventually it will come around. Like, and if it doesn't, then you know what you need to know about your partner, right? Like you, if you're willing to come to the table, do the work, do the self -reflection and...
there's a tool there and they're not going to do any of that, then you kind of have some information about your partner that you can make a decision about it at that point, right? yeah. That's part of the reason why I also, aside from the anagram, believe that self -reflection and inner work is like the biggest part of a relationship, being able to have that foundation work. Because when you do the work, there's so much more clarity that comes out of it, not just for who you are and how you respond.
because you don't want to react. You want to be able to respond from a place of self -awareness, compassion, all those great things. And then being able to bring that to the table to your relationship. And then if you see someone that can respond and you know, the yin and yang back and forth, being able to have that ebb and flow and relationship, because like you said, being able to speak your needs and be vulnerable, it is so helpful, especially from what I've seen like for men, especially just being, my gosh, that's what she needs. I can provide a hug. That's so simple. And being,
Molly Connolly (18:33.966)
you know, like almost saving the day sometimes because that's meeting a need and then it's helping you guys bond or just as a couple bond, build trust, all those things. But if someone is unwilling or doesn't understand, you know that they also need to do the in work. And maybe it's time to take a look at the relationship as a whole when some people may not want to up the ante and do that work. So thank you for sharing all that information about your.
you know, the journey that you had with your husband, cause it's just so fascinating about all the different aspects of our lives, of how we communicate, how our needs are met, wanting to be vulnerable, all those things, how the Enneagram can actually shed a light and actually, you know, encompass so much more than what we think is just a personality test with people like previously, you know. Yeah. People are like, it's just a test. I took the test. Like I did that. And it's like, well, that's fine. That's not, and a lot, the other thing I'll just briefly say is,
Most Enneagram tests, especially free ones, are only about 60 % accurate because you're taking the test from your perspective and you don't understand the whole system. So when you're answering things, you're like, well, sometimes I'm like that, or I've been working on that, so I'm gonna click that one, or do I do it now, how I used to be, whatever? And so that's, again, where talking to a coach can be super helpful because the Enneagram is a dynamic system. And I've typed people who...
have done a lot of self -growth, self -awareness, and they're like, I've released myself from that. And that's beautiful. But when they're taking an online test that's basic, like average stereotypical behaviors from the type structure, they might end up typing wrong because they don't identify themselves with those types of behaviors any longer. But that doesn't mean that they didn't at one time have those behaviors. And it's more about where those behaviors are stemming from, which is a really difficult thing to test for online, right?
Because again, the enneagram is not about behavior, it's about why you're behaving that way. And it's usually more of a subconscious thing until you're able to bring more awareness around that. So just getting online and taking a quick test or even a longer test, like, is a difficult way to kind of get connected with your type. And that can be a barrier for people into the system because they're like, well, I don't know, this doesn't sound like me, this is BS, I'm done. And so if listening to this and you're kind of like, wow, what is this? How do I use this?
Molly Connolly (20:54.766)
That is one of the things I provide for clients and I've typed, like I said, hundreds of people. And even if that's all you do to get started and the rest of it, there's so many free things online, whatever. It's just, it's that gift to yourself to really get under the hood and figure out what your type is so that you can use this system. And I can't tell you how many times I've had people come to me like, I just yesterday typed someone who said they were a nine and they are a two.
And it's all the time. Like I'm getting people coming in because they take a quick test. It tells them this and they're like, eh, I guess, you know, but then you can't use a system if you're not typed correctly. It's very common and it's okay. You can still learn about yourself and that other type as you go through that journey. But something I like to tell people almost every time I talk about it, because I'm like, you might have taken a test and looked at it, but you might not have actually ended up with your type, right? Yeah. And when you said that like nine to two,
I'm just thinking about how, like you mentioned, like the core wounds or the things underneath that made that person type 2 -9 that they didn't realize maybe was affecting the different areas of what a type 2 brings to the table. Well, and I think, again, we don't want to admit things about ourselves. Like that's why I sleep.
The self -awareness factor of it has a part of it. And also like, ew, I don't want to be seen as that way. Whether or not you want to be seen that way is the way you are. And when you're talking with me, I don't want you off the hook with those things. So if I'm hearing something, I'll be like, you know, cause your initial reaction might be to be like, no, that's not true. And then I'm like, okay, are you, tell me why that's not true. So you never do XYZ, you know, that kind of a thing. But mostly what's interesting is nine and twos.
on the outside look very similar. They're both in the positive outlook triad. So that means the way they come at conflict is to like come positive, bright side things, tell themselves everything's gonna be fine and try to like just put things, you know, I'm fine, I'm fine, everything's fine, it's fine and hope that it'll just go away. Nine's a little bit more so than two is we sometimes go towards the more fixer mentality, especially when talking to others like, I want to make you feel okay. I want to get you to the positive side.
Molly Connolly (23:08.462)
which invalidates people's feelings and invalidates our own feelings and then leads to us getting angry later because we didn't get our needs met. So we have that in very in common with each other. And so the behavior on the outside, it looks very similar. The nines also have a fear of being separated and unloved as well. So the fears are very, very similar as well. So like really drilling down on the nine and the two is like,
Something we didn't talk about and another thing people get kind of curious about is that when do you become your type? Like when are you becoming a two? Right? And that is a great question, but you can't go to an infant and say, tell me your core desires and fears and motivations. So because the system is based upon those kind of subconscious things, you know, we can't really start typing people until they're older, but.
anyone who has children knows each of them comes out already with their personality, right? So they already come out assertive or they come out dependent or they come out withdrawn. And that is kind of the little person that comes out and they act in that way. So most Enneagram teachers will say that you are born your type, but then you kind of develop that personality and come from that point of view and that perspective, that lens. And then whatever experiences you have in the world, reinforce those lenses.
those personality structures within you while you're trying to get your needs met, right? While you're going through life. And the first way that this happens is that the first relationship you have in your life is with your parents. So each of the nine types has a parental orientation. And that is a really key thing to start kind of figuring out about yourself too, because it's how you come at the world. And the first relationship you have is how you're trying to redo the relationship wherever you are.
whether it be at work or with a friend or whatever. And so knowing that pattern is also in relationships, super important. So for me and you as twos, we are ambivalent towards our protective figure. They didn't have to do anything for us to be that way. Cause again, we're likely born our type, but then if that gets reinforced, what does the ambivalent mean? I don't know how to connect with you, but I don't want to be disconnected from you. Maybe it's not safe to connect with you. Maybe you're not available for me to connect with you.
Molly Connolly (25:27.79)
So I kind of, I've got one foot in the door and one foot out. I'm sort of like coming towards you, but I don't feel the connection so then I'm gonna back away. And it just kind of feels like this, like tug and push and pull. And so how do we find our space in the family or how do we make a relationship with people? The protective figure is obviously the person who guides, supports and kind of puts the rules in place for us and tells us, you know, this is the way things should be done and then reinforces that. The other figure is the nurturing figure. How can I be in a relationship with the protective figure?
become the nurturing figure. So that is what we do. We nurture. And everywhere we go, we see, how can I help? How can I support? So that we can then be connected or feel more connected, wanted and loved, right? And so that helps me, cause I come into a friendship and I'm like, okay, what do they need? Like immediately. Yeah. Yes. wait, what about me? Like, what do I need? Right? So that, that's where we kind of lose ourselves. Now the nine's different. They're connected with both parental figure.
So they don't want to lose the connection they have. So both connected with a nurturing and protective figure and they lose their own identity because when you're connected, you kind of identify yourself with that figure. What do they see as being like a successful good person or as a person in the world that is doing things the right way, if you wanna say. So if you're connected with them, you're identifying yourself with them so that you feel connected with them and stay in that connection.
The nine is afraid of losing connection. And that's why they're afraid of conflict. Cause the conflict might disconnect me from people. And so the biggest fear they have is that disconnection. And the biggest fear we have is rejection. What's the difference? One of us is ambivalent and one of us is already connected and fearing losing the connection. So it's like very nuanced, but like when you see it happening in someone's, like my husband would not not listen to his parents. Like what they said was paramount.
And I was like, bro, leave it and cleave. What are we doing? Why are we trying to make our parents happy still? So even down to that level of things helped me to go, OK, he's still working through that and believing that we can still have a connection with someone even when we bring something uncomfortable to the table. And I'm like, duh, you just have to talk things through. And he's just terrified that people will disconnect from him if he brings it up.
Molly Connolly (27:51.502)
So it was just like a huge aha moment. That was a long one. So sorry about that. No, that's great because you just like, what's so funny about how we're both two is I'm like, yeah, I remember before I started doing, before I started doing my inner work, I would constantly tell whoever I was dating and like, you need to cut the umbilical cord, like you're 30 something, like get over it. Your parents do not rule your life. And I still talk to clients like when, when you are alone,
This is you, this is your reality. And yes, everything that has happened in your life is part of your lens, how you perspective of everything, of how you understand things. But at the end of the day, the only person in your life that you need to make happy is you. And that's coming from a full space of healed, right? Like healed quote unquote. It's being able to have the awareness, you know, that that's what's really important is being able to fill your cup for a sort of thing.
But when you do engage with someone who, and I'm not even meaning like people that I've dated, I didn't mean like friends and such, where their entire identity and what they vision of success completely hinders off of what their parents think or say or do. For me, it like is claustrophobic. I'm like, nope, can't do that, can't trust that because that connection that you described, the one foot in, one foot out type of thing.
makes complete sense as a type two because I don't have the freedom to be me 100 % and still say my success is my success and your success is yours. I don't need to have your approval 24 seven, just enough to have that validation. Like you talk about, right? So I, the nine, holy cow. I think I have dated a few nines in my life. Well, it's nines threes and sixes are the ones that are.
they're connected to their, the nines are connected to both. The threes are connected to the nurturing figure. So maybe the person you see that maybe the mama's boy, this is very stereotypical. So please just know like, but the mama's boy, right? Where it's like, well, in my mother's eyes, this is how I'd be successful. So I'm going to become that thing. very much was striving to, to be that. And then like the six is connected to the, the protective figure. So whatever system or person is going to tell me what to do, I'm going to follow that.
Molly Connolly (30:07.406)
whether it's a religion, whether it's a, yeah, like they get attacked, attached to the Enneagram. They get attached to systems or people or things that they see as authority figures, but they also have like trust issues with that as well, depending especially upon how they were raised by that protective figure. If that person was a safe person, then they feel safe and secure more easily. If that person was not a safe person because they were connected to them.
the world is not a safe place, like in general. So that's the thing. It's like just knowing that about those three types. And then we have the connected types, which are those, the three, six and nine, the ambivalent types are the two us, we're ambivalent towards our protective figure. The five is ambivalent towards both. And so they try to find their place in the family by being competent and capable and smart and knowledgeable. And then the eight is ambivalent towards our nurturing figure. So they take on the protector role.
right? Like to find their place in the world. And they're very much so controlling, protective people of themselves and their people, right? And then the disconnected types are ones disconnected from their protective figure. So they are very self -critical and struggle with a lot of self -criticism. And that inner voice is kind of that protective figure who was maybe more critical of them or they were critical of themselves and felt like that. The real person was kind of
And they might very well might have been fours are disconnected from both and longing for deep connection. And the sevens are disconnected from their nurturing figure. So nurture themselves. So constantly looking for how I can get all the things I want and nurturing myself and coming from that perspective. So yeah, just like knowing that about yourself, like already, if that's the only thing you learn from the Enneagram and then your motivations are on top of it. Like you said, it's kind of that like integral part to start like.
looking for the patterns in the way you interact with people. And then you're like, I can't stand it when, not that I can't stand it, but I see the person being connected and I feel some kind of way about that. Again, that feeling is coming from your own experiences, right? So then you can kind of question around it and say, I see them doing that. It's never going to necessarily go away, but then when you find yourself doing it, you can kind of be like, I'm doing the thing. So do I need to keep doing the thing? Is it serving me or can I kind of pause here and?
Molly Connolly (32:26.254)
see if there's another way I wanna come at it. yeah, that makes sense. Like that's everything underneath the hood like we just discussed. Like that's why I said like healed with quotes in a sense because we're never truly healed. We're just more aware. And then once we are more aware, we're more, we accept what's going on or what we have gone through and been able then to respond instead of react now because we have that awareness to move forward in different ways and communicate all those things. So.
I love the fact that you went so in depth with that. I've been wondering what my husband's type is and you just bring up the nurturing and whatnot. I'm like, he might be top five or type eight. I can't tell. And he's just, he's definitely one of those where he like wants to be smart. He enjoys bringing that education to the table. But yeah, I'm obviously, I'm going to be like - Is he withdrawn or is he more assertive?
with me or with his parents? Like that's such a tricky one. I would say he's - In the world, does he go after things? Is he more future oriented? Is he very much so like, like kind of do first kind of a thing and then maybe think about it later? Like future oriented, what's the next, what's the next, what's next? And then like moving against things. So pushing against things in order to get his needs met or the withdrawn is that internal focus. Like I said, it's independent, right? It's on my own.
but it's withdrawn away and I need to process more. The withdrawn types process more. So they're gonna go internal to either think through things, they're gonna go internal to feel through things if there are a certain type. So kind of just like processing time takes a little bit longer for them. Most of the time. Can everybody make a quick snap decision? Sure, but that's kind of the overall arching. And then maybe when you're stressed, you might be doing the other thing or when you're in conflict, you might be doing another thing, but like the vibe that you go towards people,
away from people or against people. Gosh, it's so hard because I would say he goes towards, but that's usually just with how he is with work. So he's an engineer. So for him, like he's always all about solving problems. That's always what he does. And so if I bring a problem to the table and he's stressed, like the great example is, my gosh, we bought something for Christmas.
Molly Connolly (34:47.118)
that we just realized was a fraud. So now we need to find it on Amazon instead, and then we're gonna buy it. And he's like, give me the link and I'll buy it now. And I'm like, no, we can, let's discuss it later tonight. We'll figure that out. But then most of the time, if it's like emotional stuff or relationship stuff, he's very good at responding and having that conversation that we're looking for is twos. But sometimes we kind of like table it and be like, well, let's think about it later. Like I've been able to say, you know, we don't need to solve this thing right now. So he is.
He could be either, I think maybe more inward for when you process feelings and emotion for sure. So. Is he more of a positive outlook person? Is he more like think through logical person or logic 1000 % expressive with his emotions? Like expressively logic. So he's either a one, three or five. That's the competency triad. The ones are dependent stance like us. Okay. So we kind of look like it's kind of like, if you think about withdrawn, it's simplifying it quite a bit.
but withdrawn types, which are four, five, and nine are more of that like introverted, right? And then the sort of aggressive types, which are types three, seven, and eight are more extroverted, not always, again, this is more nuanced than this. And then kind of the ambivert sort of thing kind of can go either way would be the one, two, and six. Because I wouldn't say I'm always extroverted, but I can be, but I also need time to myself to process and da, da, da, da, da. So it's that kind of in between. Okay, so once.
Competency, so I'm going to think through things logically to solve a problem. Twos, we're going to go that positive outlook and we're going to try to make things be okay, be the fixers sometimes or make everyone feel fine. The sixes are emotional realness or emotional reactivity. So they're going to vent out their feelings, that kind of a thing whenever they come to a conflict. And so that's the ones twos or sixes in those dependent stance types. And then the threes, which are also competency triad are sort of aggressive.
but they're also going through those, thinking through those problems in a more logical way. And the fives are withdrawn. So they are very much so internal and they are almost sometimes known as robotic when it comes to their emotions. They very much so intellectualize everything. A lot of engineers get kind of pivoted into the fives. They're not always fives, but my husband's was an engineer and he's a nine, so you don't have to be, but yeah, it can be hard because it's like.
Molly Connolly (37:10.414)
Well, when you're with this person, you change and this person you change. And that's why, again, having a coach just go through it. And I do couples typing sessions so you can hear your partner answer the question and hear how different it is from you and what their perspective is and what they're, it's super fun to see. Sometimes the wife or the partner will look at the other partner and be like, what? That's your best feeling in the world. Like that's what you're trying to like.
They're just like, whoa, okay, that makes a lot of sense now, but also didn't know that. So super, super helpful. But sorry, that was all a lot of intensity and probably you still don't have any clarity about what your husband's type is. But I actually think he's a type three. Type three, okay. So I'll have, I'll table that idea and look into it more. Yeah. Well, the three is the one that is connected with her nurturing figure. So again, that makes sense. Figuring figure says is what you do to be successful. I'm going to do that thing.
and they want to be valuable to others. They want to have a value for other people and they have a fear of being exposed. So they won't always be always as open with their emotions, but they are a heart type. So the emotions are there. They just kind of keep themselves more often. So yeah. yeah. That makes sense. And he's done some inner work. So he's been able to like table the need to be successful based off of what his mother says and stuff. So like he's done a lot of good work. So yeah.
than being a type two, I'm like, what? That's their journey is to kind of be more authentic to what their desires are rather than what they think other people would see as valuable, right? And that's really hard for them because it's like, well, what if people don't find me valuable then? And they're the kind of chameleon -esque type that can read a room and shift and change. So that's also hard to find their type because they kind of become whatever that person in their room is gonna see them being as valuable and successful.
So normally with partners of threes, they'll be like, you don't like that game. Why are you saying you like that game? Well, they're connecting, right? Because they're connected to their nurturing figure. They learned if they identify with that person, that's how they feel that connection. So they go around the world connecting with people by shifting just kind of little white lies about themselves to make the other person see them as valuable or someone who they would want to connect with, right? Yeah, I could say definitely. A lot in that way, but get a lot done in that way.
Molly Connolly (39:27.47)
Yeah, it's hilarious when you just bring up a little bit of like the shifting, like I can sometimes spot and like stop people pleasing me right now. I just want you to tell me exactly what you're thinking. I just want to tell. And the way I know he's doing it is like, I'll say, what do you want to have for dinner? Like just, let's just go that basic. And he'd be like, well, what are you hungry for? And like, do not answer my question with a question. I just want you to like, once again, give me a response.
I don't want you to people please me. Let's just discuss what we want to eat tonight. Do you want Thai food and I want pizza? Cool. Do we want to get Thai pizza? Like what do you want? It's so funny how I swear that that is always the couple conversation that everyone can understand the dinner conversation. It's always there where it's like, like that can almost be part of the typing session. Like, okay, so decide what you get for dinner, right?
Do you already want to know what the other person wants? Or are you already trying to get your own needs met? Like all that stuff. So that's me. Like people are like, do you just constantly think about this? And like, I literally cannot not think about it. So when someone's talking to me, when I'm hearing something on TV, when I'm reading someone's biography, like I am like, they're this type. Like it just helps me to understand the people around me and then connect with them on a more authentic way or to not take it personally when I see some like.
And I think that's a good way to start fixing things. I think that's a good way to start fixing things. I think that's a good way to start fixing things. I think that's a good way to start fixing things. I think that's a good way to start fixing things. I think that's a good way to start fixing things. I think that's a good way to start fixing things. I think that's a good way to start fixing things. I think that's a good way to start fixing things. I think that's a good way to start fixing things. I think that's a good way to start fixing things. I think that's a good way to start fixing things. I think that's a good way to start fixing things. I think that's a good way to start fixing things. I think that's a good way to start fixing things. I think that's a good way to start fixing things. I think that's a good way to start fixing things. I think that's a good way to start fixing things. I think that's a good way
become the self -aware to catch yourself in these moments and say, what's the new choice that I want to make? How do I really want to respond? So it's not like take the enneagram and then go deep diving and be like, now I know everything I need to do. No, you've got to do the baby steps and walk through these things. It's just like how it is with therapy, coaching, all of it involved. So. Well, I would say to people, you didn't get this way in a day. You've been building your personality your entire life.
Molly Connolly (41:39.054)
The defense mechanisms you have up are built up very, very high from all of the different traumas you've been through. So if you've been through a lot of traumas, your defense mechanisms are way up high. So it's like an onion, right? The first layer is just to learn your type, your motivations, and start looking at some of those patterns like, and you know, the parental orientation part, like, am I doing that thing right now? Like, and just being curious. And the big part there is to have self -compassion and understanding. So like you said, the self -love.
People are like, so what do you do with this? What do you do? I'm like, what you do is you live this way and the small incremental changes over time, just like any habit is going to make a big change and shift. So Chelsie from five years ago to Chelsie to now, completely different human being living a completely different life. And how do you do that? Is you make the decision today to start being more curious.
and to not judge yourself and go down a shame spiral. Because again, none of these motivations in their own desires or fears are bad or wrong. It's not bad when you feel driven by them. It's about noticing and providing yourself with that love and self -compassion and seeing the ways in which, okay, I don't know how to handle this. So maybe I do ask for help, right? Whatever that is, but like people are like, so how do you use this? What do you do? And I'm like, you are doing something because they're like,
Okay, so build awareness, whatever. And I'm like, no, I am still after five years still going, that's my need to vindicate claims right there. Like still learning and I will continue to do so because there's so much to learn about it. And that's fun. Because as you're learning about yourself, then the more you're feeling this like empowered feeling, right? So many people get into that stuckness. So many people get into that, I don't know what to do. And this gives you something to do, someplace to put those spinning thoughts.
and someplace to funnel them instead of just spinning around with them or going on the shame spirals, right? yeah, definitely. That's the beauty of doing this work, all the inner work and movement of itself. So real quick, now that we've talked about this, like, I'm curious though, we have mentioned that, you know, your husband's a type nine, you're a type two, I'm type two, possibly my husband's type three. I know that there is a lot that goes into this, but...
Molly Connolly (43:58.958)
Are there some types that might work better together than others? And like, maybe you can just pick two or three of them, whatever you think that would be best to discuss like their strengths or maybe even like overarching patterns you might notice. Yeah, sure. I think that what you said earlier to reference your own stuff is that it has more to do with each individual's willingness to look at themselves and their own.
blind spots, their own stress responses, their own, because a healthy relationship is made up with two healthy, secure individuals that come together. So any of the nine types can be in relationship with one another as long as they're willing to do that work, right? And so it starts with that like self -awareness piece, but then are there gonna be some types that more naturally kind of blend together because they meet each other's needs? Yes. But there's also the opposites attract, right?
And so kind of that missing piece part where it's like, yeah, that part about you drives me absolutely crazy, but it's also the thing that helped me to fall in love with you. And that's kind of the aspect of personality that I love is that each of these aspects of our personality can be healthy or unhealthy, can show up and be helpful and additive to the relationship or also be detrimental, right? And so that's where that compassion and care can come in. So there are some, maybe you could say more common type pairings.
And I do have a post about that I was gonna share too. So like, it's common for certain types to come together. And usually the types that come together are those more opposite attract kind of a thing because it's like, that person has a thing that I wish I had kind of thing. So for example, we didn't talk too much about it, but there's the enneagram has paths. So the growth path and the stress path and they're the lines that kind of interconnect the circle. So the enneagram is a circle with the nine types around the nine is at the.
where the noon would be or the 12 would be on a clock and it goes around from there. And then there's little lines interconnecting. Well, those lines mean something. Really common for those lines, those resource points for each other to be in relationships. So twos and eights, even though we go to eight and stress, we're the nurturers, they're the protectors. So we're very drawn to that kind of protector self because we wanted to be in connection with our protector. So it makes sense that we connect with the protector type. So twos and eights can be pretty common.
Molly Connolly (46:18.318)
ones and sevens. so ones are the more perfectionist. They want to be right and good, live with integrity, do things with integrity. And then the sevens are the enthusiastic optimist. And so ones go to seven and growth. Sevens go to one and stress. The sevens are like the free, flexible, fun, give me more excitement, life, vitality, stimulation kind of people. And the ones are more, we got to follow the rules and do what we're supposed to do. And
So you can see opposites attracting there, but again, kind of feeling you need to come out and have a little more fun. You need to like slow down and follow the rules a little bit more. So we kind of balance each other out. And that's kind of how each of them could kind of work. So when you start to learn this system, if you look at those resource points across from each other, a lot of those end up kind of sometimes working together. And I love doing couple sessions when it works out that way. Cause I'm like the thing about that person that's driving you crazy is because when you're stressed,
you act that way. So the thing you don't like about their personality is something you don't like about yourself. So again, look in the mirror because that's why, you know, and so it's not, it's not about them and their annoying thing. It's about you and the thing you don't like necessarily by your own personality. and maybe it's a little bit about them too, probably a little bit, but. Well, that makes sense. I know that this is going to be another discussion some other time, but like,
when people talk about their wing types and I'm a lean towards one perfectionism and wanting to follow the rules and whatnot. And when, you know, my husband, sometimes he's can be very spontaneous and I'm like, I can't handle it. I need to plan a little bit more. I need a little bit more structure. but then when I'm stressed, I'm like, yeah, let's sure. Let's just go out to dinner. Yeah, that's fine. Wherever you want to go. That's fine. Don't care. I'll eat whatever. And that's not who I am at all. I'm like, I am very selective. I have to eat a certain way. And it's just,
Yeah. And that's even explained through those dependent stance types, because dependent stance types are all dutiful, responsible, present mind focused. We like to really be planning through things and know the details and be in the weeds with the details. And the assertive aggressive types are more forward thinking. Like I don't have time for that. So like, he's just like, next thing, you know, and you're like, Whoa, we haven't finished the thing here, you know? So he's onto the next and you're kind of still processing what's here or he's planning the next thing. And you're like,
Molly Connolly (48:40.494)
or trying to do it and move it and you feel like he's kind of moving against you almost. So that's that sort of energy we talked about earlier. Not that he's pushing, but like that's kind of how that works. So. yeah. That makes complete sense. To be honest, I could go on a tangent about that. So we'll just stop. I would love to hear it. That's what I, this is like what I live for to me. I'm the same as you. I find it so fascinating to listen to couples and I just listen to them, let them tell me all the things.
And then I can say, do you want to know why that's happening? And I can kind of almost diagnose. And then it's this release of anger. It's this release. It's this understanding. And then it's like, look at the ways in which this is helpful for you. And also, yeah, it's okay that they do that thing that's annoying because that's their personality. It's different from you, right? You wouldn't want them to be the exact same as you either, because that's an interesting thing to do too, is you have two twos in a relationship or you have like,
to like of any certain two types together. It feels simpatico at times, but then it's like you have those opposition, like the same, meaning the same thing all the same time can kind of end up bringing some interesting dynamics into the same. I was going to say, I was like, I hope my husband's not a type two, but like, I don't think he was because we have, we do have a lot of things in common. It's a lot, but at the same time that would make sense that he's still close in type in a sense. He, you have.
And so you have a wing three and you have a wing one. And so you access both of them in different times and different circumstances and scenarios. And as a three, he has a two wing and he has a four wing. And so sometimes he leans right into the way you behave and it's right there. and for people who don't know wings, they are just the types that are to the right or left of your type. And like we're kind of talking about here, they kind of bring a different nuance to the way you can show up and behave.
you have access to both, you do use both. Sometimes there is a more dominant wing, the one that you identify yourself with more. And then that's when people will call themselves like a two wing three or a two wing one. For me, I just say I have two with balanced wings. And what I find is people get more obsessed with like, which wing am I than they really do about like the growth path. And so it's not an actually like important thing unless you're using it to understand yourself and others like.
Molly Connolly (51:01.294)
this is how type ones behave. And when I'm doing that thing, I'm in the type one a little bit more than just the type two, right? But it's something that I feel like distracts people almost because they want to put it in their profile. And they're like, but what wing am I? I'm like, it literally doesn't matter. Unless if you want to feel like you want to lean into your more successful oriented self that day.
And put on a show and be showing up as like your shining bright star going to your three wing. If you need to be more detail oriented and focused on making sure you're getting through all the things, lean on into your one wing. It's there as a resource point. But I think the most important thing is to dive into your own type structure first, which for us as twos is very oppositional to who we are. I don't want to know about myself. I want to know about everyone else. And so I had a block. I would start reading about twos.
And I would like quit listening to my inner monologue and just start thinking, or I think about other twos I know rather than myself because I'd be other people. And I'm like, my gosh, focus on yourself, Chelsie. So yeah, crazy. That's very fun for you to say. Cause I'm like, yeah, that sounds very familiar of like me 10 years ago. Like, I don't need to, I know what I know everything and it's fine. Everyone needs to work on themselves. And then I'm like, Nope, that's not true. It's time for me to do the work.
So, and I love how you brought up this numerous times and I just want women to know that maybe even there's a few men that are probably listening, but like you've talked about all the benefits that people can get just from learning the Enneagram and you have discussed the benefits that couples can have, but do you have like a client example of like maybe someone took the Enneagram with you a few months, if not years ago and how like did that impact their relationship?
Can you share that inside out? I'm lucky enough to have taken a handful of people through my elite life experience, which is like a three month, four month long transformational experience where we go through from the beginning all the way through all the different structures that we've been talking about here and even more that we haven't even touched on yet. And as they're doing that, they're developing their whatever. And so what ends up happening is whatever their growth path is, they find themselves with those benefits of
Molly Connolly (53:16.718)
I'm no longer like, it's just, it's different for each of the types for a time too, that I worked with. she had had therapy, she had kind of worked through her trauma. She had sort of gotten through all that, but she was still feeling stuck and she was still kind of on shame spirals all the time and having kind of spats with her husband. and so what she ended up being able to do afterwards now it's been like a year and a half. He is now owning his behavior. He is now, she doesn't take it personally anymore. She doesn't jump into action to try to save him. she is taking care of herself, her.
And so, you know, she's, she's, she's
she would tell me a story and she would be like, my husband thinks I'm such a, you know, BITCH or something like that. And he's like, yeah, you're a BITCH. I'm like, your husband called you that? Like, hang on. She's like, no, no, no, he didn't call me that. I'm just saying he felt like I was being that way. And I'm like, how do you know that? Are you a mind reader? So we are creating these stories. And so stopping the story and really like, wait a minute, I'm calling myself that and then.
projecting them onto him, you know? So so many of these things that we were kind of rolling around with, now she has clarity of mind, owns her own feelings, let him own his. She knows when she's kind of going towards him for those things, chooses when to do those things. So again, it's very dependent on whatever type the person is, what their journey looks like, but it just continues to kind of grow. And they see that those kind of onion pieces unfolding. I'm doing that here too. And I joined five more things on the school board.
I don't wanna do those things. I'm gonna say no, right? But I saw where I could be of helpful and supportive and I'm not gonna do that anymore. Now I have my own scheduling time. So I do have time to go do the things I wanna do. And it just takes the permission sometimes from people and like thinking through those things that seems really basic to other people, like just say no. But like for us too, it's like, no, no, no, that is a three month journey. That is a lifelong journey to learn how to say no. So. yeah.
Molly Connolly (55:34.414)
and learning when you say no of how to do it too. I feel really personal when I'm like, no, when it's just one sentence, because it takes a long time to get there. Because then you've tried to people pleaser explain why you can't do something that takes a lot of growth too to do. So I'm so excited that you shared that example. Now I'm curious because you've mentioned the different sessions that you do with couples. Can you share what else you have to offer and like where everyone else can find you?
I'd love to, yeah. So the most basic thing, so if you're an individual who just wants to start exploring this, I have a two -session package and it is that typing and leveling session package. So first you just figure out what your type is and then a couple of weeks later we meet again to look at those nine levels of development to help you to understand what do I look like at my healthiest self and how I kind of disintegrate into the more kind of stuck, stressed out version of myself. And we set specific intentions, not goals, but intentions.
for what attitudes and behaviors we're going to lean into to help you get to that healthier side. And when you have that clarity of mind of why you're doing that thing, it'll help you start catching those behaviors and attitudes more quickly. And then right, almost right away, there's like this version of yourself that you used to be and the version of yourself you are now, it's very rewarding and it kind of keeps going from there. So that two session package is out there for people. And if you just want to do the typing session, that's out there too.
And I do have a membership. So if you enjoy those two sessions and you want to keep coming twice a month with me, then we just keep doing that. And we keep working through the system until you feel like you're good to go through everything. And I do corporate workshops as well. Speaking engagements, things like that. I have the couples typing session. Yeah. You know, what's crazy and just thinking about this too, like the other relationships in our life, like thinking of you doing like a family session.
my God. I know I'm doing friends. I'm so excited. Next week I'm doing a wine night with some girlfriends. I'm going to go over, type them all, talk to them about their like, and I've done that before too. So like I said, someone's like, Hey, will you come get, yes. Because if you, everyone has a personality, everyone has dynamics, everyone finds it fascinating. it's a little bit embarrassing sometimes too, but Hey, whatever, you know, like it's, we can make it fun. We can make it serious. And, I just as a two will adjust to what your needs are.
Molly Connolly (57:58.478)
That is fantastic, Chelsie. And what a way to end that. So then where can they find you to get all this information other than when I'm going to include everything in the show notes? Yeah, I have an Instagram that I'm on pretty often, LinkedIn for any of those corporate needs, team dynamic workshops, or if you have a team that you're kind of maybe one or two people on there and you're like, okay, if we could get them a little more self awareness, like, let's bring her in, you know, so there's
All of that is on LinkedIn slash also my website, just a one -stop shop for kind of anything and everything. So elite enneagram coaching .com is a great place to go look around. I got blog posts on there and free downloads. I overview the nine types on there and you can download my type overviews. So start to kind of do some self -discovery. cause some people can look at the types and know you don't need to go through a whole session with me.
And my biggest thing is I just want people to use this as a tool for self growth and development, whether they pay me for it or not is fine. So I just want to impact the world. Cause I feel like if everybody would just know their types and kind of start doing this, man, we have a different world out there. And so I know that's a big dream, but single -handedly no, but we'll all work together on that. All the twos we're going to try.
All right, well, Chelsie, thank you so much for joining me today. And ladies, like I said, I'm going to include all that information in the show notes and go give her a follow. Go ahead and sign up for a typing session because I'll just tell you, you're going to love it. Thank you.