When you’re on the apps, how often do you pass over a profile because his first photo is… for a better term, blah? 

Or start glancing at his photos and see him standing next to a boat, a car, or have some shirtless “muscle” picture from the gym?

You just move on to the next profile, hoping the next one might give you a better idea of what to expect?

You’ve been there, done that - and so have my guests!

Today I have Cami Kasmerchak and Diane Tarr, who are not only friends, but dating pros and they have launched SHIFT dating lab.

Cami is a therapist and artist who brings her sharp eye for photography to capture clients in their best light. Diane is an entrepreneur who brings order to chaos and creates entries to conversation from simple prompts. Together they are changing the way men in their 30s and 40s approach dating apps in order to attract the women they want to date.

You’ll hear them share experiences creating their own dating app profiles before realizing men need help too. Both women provide insight as to how good men get overlooked based on their profiles and don’t even know it! 

Give today's episode a listen and share it with a man in your life who might just need to hear it’s time to upgrade their dating profile.

Mention the Reinventing the Arena Podcast when signing up for services to receive 50% off!

Learn more about Shift Dating Lab with Cami and Diane:

@shift_datinglab on Instagram

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Cami Kasmerchak is a therapist and artist who brings her sharp eye for photography to capture clients in their best light.

Diane Tarr is an entrepreneur who brings order to chaos and creates entries to conversation from simple prompts.

Together they are changing the way men in their 30s and 40s approach dating apps in order to attract the women they want to date.

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TRANSCRIPT OF EPISODE

Molly Connolly (00:01.23)

Hey there, lady. Welcome back to another episode of Reinventing the Arena. I am so thrilled that you're here. And if this is your first time joining, welcome to the show. So for today's episode, I not only have one guest, but I have two. Kami Kazmarchek and Diane Tarr are not only friends, but dating pros, and they have launched Shift Dating Lab. Kami is a therapist and artist who brings her sharp eye for photography to capture clients in their best light.

Diane is an entrepreneur who brings order to chaos and creates entries into conversations from simple props. Together, they are changing the way men in their 30s and 40s approach dating apps in order to attract the woman they want to date. Welcome you two to the show. Thank you. I'm so pumped because I've been wanting to do a little bit more focused podcast episodes for men because I do have men that are listeners.

But of course, I've always had my husband join. So this is a really great opportunity for the men to hear what women are doing for men. One thing that I really like about this too is that Diane, you and I met at a networking group, like one month the group was canceled for some reason and we decided to grab coffee. And that's when I first heard about this. But before we even get to Shift Dating Lab, how did you two meet?

Well, actually I wouldn't want to talk about the night that we, it was that afternoon that we did meet at that networking event. You introduced yourself. Hi, I'm Molly Connelly. I'm a dating and relationship coach. And I was like, tuned into you. And then I think you mentioned something about, you know, working with a client who doesn't drink alcohol and helping that person navigate the dating scene. And I was like, this woman doesn't know it, but we are going to be friends. Like that, she is speaking my language.

And then they canceled that one day and I had the thought like, I should see if Molly Connelly wants to like meet up for coffee. And then you reached out to me. So I thought that was great. And when we did meet for coffee, I mentioned to you kind of like as a confession, like, hey, I've kept a spreadsheet of all the men that I've dated. And you said me too, and you're the only person that I've ever had say me too. I loved that.

Molly Connolly (02:22.414)

yeah, my spreadsheet, I still have it. I refer to it. I actually help my clients go through a very similar process. So it's one of my favorite things, but I'm glad that you have a spreadsheet too. Well, the only person that has ever come close to that is a client that I took on who was divorced and in her late six or her early sixties, excuse me. And she had a file folder. She would print out there like match .com or their, what are the other ones? I can't even think of the top of my head.

Iharmi, she would print off their profile. Okay, that's next level. Yeah, I was like, wow, I used to do screenshots, but. That's really funny. So there is a lot to navigate with dating for sure. Kami and I first met, we worked at the same company and I started, I started sometime shortly before she did, maybe like a week or two or a couple, but right about the same time I started there and then she joined us as an intern.

And on her first day, one of the jobs she needed to do was complete her bio for the website, because I needed to upload that. And she just sat down and like typed it out. And I was so amazed because I was over here like spinning my wheels, writing my own bio for the website. So on Kami's first day, I had her write my bio for the website. And I just like typed it out for me. It was great.

Well, and I had thought that Diane had been there for like much, much longer. I came in as an intern and I was just like, this is great. Diane seems wonderful. I think Diane, you were one of the people who like helped me get set up and whatnot. And I thought you had been there forever and you were like, no, I just started too. And so, yeah, so Diane and I worked together as I was an intern and I was there for like a couple of months kind of a thing. And then I came on part -time and

Diane and I got to work a little bit more closely and then I eventually came on like closer to full -time and we worked together across this teeny tiny desk. I think we like measured it one time and it was three feet wide by two feet like deep. And so it was like one of those Ikea desks that, you know, one person is supposed to work at and we both did and we would have to like move our like water glasses and our laptops around so that we could fit everything.

Molly Connolly (04:43.47)

on the table. yeah, I can't even, I can't even imagine how that would work very well, but I'm glad you two got to sit so close together. So like how did then this like work relationship, maybe it was the table that brought you two together to become friends, but like how did that friendship develop? Yeah, one day Diane bought me lunch and we just kind of had the chance to talk about our lives outside of work. and it kind of, that was kind of the first time that we really dove into things that

you know, you don't always share with coworkers because it's like a professional relationship. But on that day, we kind of our work friendship transitioned from work friends to like friend friends. And, you know, I would bring Diane vegetables from my garden and Diane would share recipes with me. And, you know, we would hang out outside of work and we kind of just developed this real friends kind of relationship. that's great. And like, how did you guys like

get into what drew you into starting this business together? We came to realize because we were sitting across from each other in such close quarters and becoming friends outside of work that we were both dating essentially for the first time as adults at the same time. And so we had this enormous shared experience between the two of us navigating the online dating world for the first time as adults is

pretty big thing. And we were, you know, we had that. And so we started asking each other for feedback. Hey, look at my profile. Hey, here's what's going on with this person. What do you think? And we just started dialoguing about those things. And I, at one point, came as the photographer. So I asked her if she would take pictures of me, you know, I had some, but I wasn't, I was trying to be thoughtful about what I wanted to project or present and thinking about the kind of person I wanted to attract.

And so I was like, what I have in my iPhone is not cutting it. I need to step up this game a little bit. So Kami met me. We did a couple of those actually. And we would do a bunch of photos and then I would run to my car and change clothes and get back out and we'd drive to like the next location. And so we just started doing that together.

Molly Connolly (07:03.982)

Like we would talk about, you know, prompts and your profile in general. And when I was creating my profile, one of the things that I realized was like, I don't have a lot of pictures of myself that I feel like would be pictures that I want to use on a profile based off of what Diane had said in terms of like thinking about how do I want to present myself? What am I trying to communicate? You know, who am I trying to attract by?

like showing what kind of hobbies I'm interested in or thinking about the mix of pictures you want on a profile, right? You want like a headshot, you want something with more of like your full body in it. You want pictures with your friends, you want pictures without your friends. And one of the things we also talked about was like your real life, not just like this curated kind of situation. And that was always a big part of the conversation that Diane and I had and what was sometimes difficult to

think about in creating a profile because I realized I didn't have those pictures and I had to like consciously go out and take them or ask friends to take them or like create up situations where I could have those photographs created basically. yeah, I remember those days. I remember like sifting through different photos or being like, I'm going to wedding this weekend. Yes, or I'm wearing this dress.

I get my hair done, making sure like, Hey friends, I wasn't in a sorority, but you were telling me how to pose. And they'd be like, you're going to do this. And I'm like, my God, I hate that one. Let's do something else. But people think putting on an online dating profile is super simple.

but it's not when you really think about your intentions behind it. So like, are your intentions, like, are you really looking for a boyfriend or someone casually to date? Are you really looking to settle down with someone long -term? So that actually means like, what types of photos, what types of prompts, what are you willing to like put out there in order to draw in the person and build a connection so you can have that relationship? So.

Molly Connolly (09:09.262)

doing that as a woman, I think that all of us kind of know that that's what we have to do. But I'm curious now too, like when you guys were on the apps constantly like updating your profile, like how often did you actually see men updating their profiles? That's a good question. I mean, one of the things that I definitely noticed when I would meet up with people in person is that

A lot of times their pictures would be like older pictures. And then what they looked like in person was it wasn't like, it was always a bad thing. It was just like, you look different than your picture. Like you, your hair is either really, really like much longer or much shorter, or like you used to have like this full beard and now you're like clean shaven, you know, like kind of drastic things. Yeah, they hadn't updated pictures on their profile because like we said,

If you're like looking for pictures and you're creating a profile and you don't have them, then you go back through, you know, all of the stuff that you have. And if it's six years old, you're like, well, this is me. I guess we'll throw it up there. So I just, I found that a lot of times men had like outdated pictures on their profile or such a range where I didn't know which picture was like the most current picture. As she was saying that I was remembering there was a guy that I eventually said, Hey, once I looked him up on Facebook, I was like, Hey,

We don't need to meet, you don't actually look anything like how you've presented on your profile. And he was confused. And I honestly think that sometimes men, especially, just don't have those things readily available. And they're not intentionally trying to catfish or trick, but maybe they just don't have those and they're not used to saying, they're not used to doing what you did. Hey friends, I need you to tell me how to pose and take a picture of me tonight.

Right? So they go and grab what they have, like Cami said. And then next thing you know, you've got pictures from 2014 or something that shouldn't be there. Yeah. So keeping things recent, if you can within the past year, that's best. Yeah. I don't know if I mentioned this earlier when I was talking to you too, but there was a gentleman, this is back when like Match was just really, their mobile app was just really getting, I don't know, easier to use.

Molly Connolly (11:22.766)

But this gentleman, and I knew it was a joke because my friend actually went on a date with him later, but he had a shirtless pic from 1990 something. And I screenshotted it and I saved it because I was like, this is the funniest thing, but this is also irritating because like you guys said, like all of a sudden I like saw a chronological set of pictures that ended up being nothing like him. But my friend was like, he was really funny in this and this. I'm like, but was he worth dating like for you?

And she's like, no, not really. And like, I get that that draws attraction. The funny photos, the 90 shirtless picture and acid -watched jeans posing. But yeah, you got to take it seriously sometimes too for what you're thinking you're going to get, right? Sure. Right. And that comes back to things like posing with your car or your motorcycle or your boat. It's like, you know, being thoughtful about presenting you.

And I think that's part of our aim is like, there are really good guys out there and we want to help you. You're already awesome. We want to help you show that. And sometimes it just, you just need a little help to do so. I remember, and I've used help, right? I've gone after, Hey, take my picture. So currently where you guys stand with helping these men with their profiles, like what are your first steps that you like to do when working with a potential client?

When we, when we started the business and we're kind of thinking about how we wanted to approach this, we really thought about, we want to get to know people as individuals. We want to get to know men. Kind of like what we were talking, what people are looking for, what men's intentions are for being in online dating. Are you just like getting back in online dating? Are you doing online dating for the first time? Like how much support are you looking for? So we have.

men fill out an assessment ahead of time before we ever meet with them to kind of get more information about them and what they're looking for and like their their views towards online dating basically. that's good. I like having that because it allows them to actually open up and dump about like almost brain dump information that maybe they aren't seeing between the lines and allows you guys to pull things out for them to say hey this is really interesting I know a bunch of women would

Molly Connolly (13:47.726)

you know, women are looking for men like this, or this is something that's really not fun to showcase of like just you standing with a bunch of cars that you own. Why don't we have a picture of you like going boating or driving like a third like into race cars or motorcycle? Like, why don't we have a picture of you driving like those fun things for their hobbies. So now that like they filled out the assessment, how would you guys work with them on that next step?

Yeah, so once we get the assessment, we know a little bit more about you. We know what you're looking for and what you're thinking. We kind of have a couple of different tiers of services available depending on that assessment. So if someone is just really looking for some additional support, like review feedback, we might recommend them for our base package. And that's either like reviewing one of their online profiles that they already have.

so that Diane can look at that and give feedback and revision ideas and let men know, how does this land with women? What are we reading about you and about what you're looking for in dating from this profile? And let's see how well that aligns with what you've told us you're looking for in dating. And then we get to have a collaborative session after Diane and I have reviewed that profile. And we get to have a collaborative session with

you know, the man who has submitted this information and kind of like give that feedback live and see what you know how that lands with him and what he's thinking about it. And then we have two other levels, which are a little bit more involved. So there's our mid level package and our high end package and our mid level one is can also be a review.

Or it can be if you don't have a profile yet, like let's say you're going into online dating for the first time or like it's been a really long time and like whatever you were doing back then is no longer relevant for online dating. It's more of like helping create content. So this includes a photo shoot and still that collaborative session and feedback and like talking about like prompts and you know, bios and things like that on your online profile, but it's much more towards

Molly Connolly (16:05.71)

like creating versus just revision and feedback. And with our high end package, that is much more collaborative. So instead of just one meeting with Diane and I, it's really two meetings in addition to a photo shoot and all of the feedback and either revisions or help creating actual content. my gosh, that's like that right there. I just cannot even fathom how many men

would want to take up that opportunity. So long story short, my husband and I had seen each other's profiles a few times over the span of three years before we actually met. And the more he updated his profile, the more I was interested in dating him. And I mean, even what he had on his profile, I didn't even really read through it, which I think a lot of people do nowadays is just like look at the photos first and then read through the profile.

And so for me, he had this business photo and he was like barely smiling. I'm like, he doesn't look fun. Like he doesn't look like someone that I want to hang out with. He's in a suit. Like where, where would I hang out with this guy? And then on the third time I saw him like basically like three years into this. And I looked at it. I was like, I'll just click on his profile. Fine. He still had the business suit picture, but the rest of the pictures were, were great.

He was hanging out with his sister. People that I later on found out was his sisters. and then like, he was ironically, yes, he's a fisherman. So I had a picture, he had a picture of him fishing. He had a picture of him hanging out for a football game, visiting friends, doing other things like going out with his guy friends, bowling, playing in a band and all this stuff. I was like, this guy's really interesting. He's really diverse in his hobbies.

And it really made me say, okay, it's time to read the profile. And now that I think about it, because things have changed obviously since like 2019, when I was like, I am done dating. I know this is who I want to be with. Where I lived previously, hinge wasn't a thing yet. Like different cities have different, and from what I know from my clients too, certain cities, people are on Bumble. Other cities, people are on Tinder and Hinge. Like it is a rotating thing. So.

Molly Connolly (18:25.838)

from what I recall from even Bumble, like the amount that you can put on there is like niche. Like you can't put much, but I can go onto match .com and I can write like 10 paragraphs to tell you my life story to please pick me. and then, but then there's hinge where you just like, you fill out prompts. How do you two work with men when they're like, well, I want to do a Bumble profile and a hinge profile. Like, have you guys come across that at all?

Yeah, I would say that's totally fine because they can be crossovers. And to your point, Molly, I always updated my own profile on a regular basis, even if it's just changing out one picture or changing a prompt a little bit, just because that tells the algorithm, hey, I'm a little fresh here and it keeps things moving. So I always did that. And I still recommend that on a regular basis. Pictures about like, instead of you in front of your car, you know, if you are someone who likes to cook, then tell us about that.

Tell us your favorite recipe. Tell us, if you bill yourself as a foodie, tell us what you really love and where to go. So really capture your personality there. Well, so I also want to say that across platforms, I think the advice that Diane and I give is really it's principle -based. And so it can be applied to any app, to any setting where someone is online dating. So it's thinking about...

like the principles of communication or like principles of like, what kind of mix of photos should you have on a profile? And so that can be applied to a profile where you get six pictures or 20 pictures, you know, whatever it is. I don't know if there's a dating app out there where you get that many pictures, but. Or like in the example you were giving Molly, if it's, you know,

a dating app where you get maybe just a line or two or prompts versus something where you can write a little bit more in depth. It's all basically focused on the principles of what you're trying to communicate. And is that aligning with your personality and what we are learning about you in this process? And so agreed, even though Bumble and Hind are gonna have very different prompts, I would still use kind of similar things.

Molly Connolly (20:40.11)

when I was doing it and it's really easy to do that or use four of the same pictures but maybe change one out. So you can still like Amy said keep it mostly consistent even across platforms but tailor it to that one. Now I have a question here. I think both of you are off the apps but if you're on the apps totally random question I know. How many times when you're looking through a profile do you think I could totally help this person?

We cooked up this idea post being on apps, or we actually started digging into it and cold steel, like developing this idea once we were both off. I'm not currently on the apps, but when I think about when I was on the apps, the things that Diane and I would like bond over or like when, you know, I would be like, you know, this is happening. Diane would be like, my gosh, that's happening to me too. A lot of times was around things where we felt like we weren't getting like

Like we weren't getting to know someone through their profile and you can only get to know someone so much through a profile, but it is like, it can be a determining factor of like, do I want to meet this person in real life or am I going to just move along and look at the next profile? Like it is important. It's not the end point. It's the entry point. And it's like, you want to have a good entry point because you want to, to be attracting the people that you're going to go on dates with. Exactly. And then what you also,

that entry point, whether that's, well, that's combination of the bio and the pick that also speaks volumes, but how you're going to be able to communicate and messaging. And my clients get so frustrated when they're messaging because it's hurry up and get off the app and meet in person or one or two met two words. And it's like, hi, you just fill out your entire bio or you have enough information. How can you not respond in a way that keeps me interested?

So yeah, it says volumes when, in my opinion too, when men in the past would have very little things on their bio and they would include emojis and like, I don't care that you run and that you fish with an emoji, like show it to me. So yeah, I don't know about you ladies, but it just like got very annoying. Yeah. Well, and I will say, so I'm currently in a relationship with someone who I met on dating apps and

Molly Connolly (23:05.422)

He was someone who, when I met him in real life and we had been dating for a while, I was like, you really sold yourself short on your profile. Like, you know, you are way cuter in person and like you have a lot of interesting hobbies and you're an interesting person. And I didn't get all of that through what you were communicating in your profile. And I'm so glad that like we did, you know, start talking and messaging because,

That was the thing that kept me interested in like eventually led to us going on a date was that like he was really good at communicating over the app. But I was in this kind of like weird spot where I was like, I was like, okay, let's just like talk to a bunch of people, match with a bunch of people, like see what comes from it before I like have to go off for a little while. Cause I was getting really busy. And so he was like one of the last people that I like started a conversation with. And eventually when it all played out, I was like, dude,

You could have like, we could have been talking and like going on dates way sooner. Like I think I had seen his profile and like, I was like, I don't know. And then he had like matched with me and whatever we ended up meeting up in person. And I'm like, you're amazing. You're awesome. Like, and I wasn't getting that through what you had been communicating. That's what we see a lot of times with profiles is like, you're already amazing and your profile can be like, can showcase that in so many ways.

So like Diane and I wanna help men do that. Yeah, and I think that's an important piece too. I think I started out like, okay, I want a relationship or I want love or this sort of idea of, it wasn't actually what I wanted. I just didn't know it and it wasn't what I needed. So I thought that's what I wanted was a relationship but actually what I needed was experience. I needed to meet a variety of people.

Right? I needed to meet people who have different interests. I needed to find out like, what's out there? What do I like? What don't I like? What can I tolerate? Right? Everybody is a mix of all these things. And where do I, where do I fit in this? And what do I really want? And I, it took me a long time to even own it personally that what I really wanted was to just date. Cause I needed that experience as an adult.

Molly Connolly (25:19.918)

And so that's so much of what we do in the beginning with clients is helping them figure out what are they seeking? It may be love, it may be a relationship, but it also may be, did you meet new people? Are you trying new things, right? Are you getting out there? Are you gaining experience? That's part of dating too. So we try to invest in that upfront to help people figure out what they really are seeking out of this. And it's important to be honest about what you are seeking.

Right? Is it something casual? Like you mentioned, Molly, or is it, I really do want a relationship. So figuring that out really helps everybody from the beginning. I totally agree. I was in a similar boat where when I was younger, I would start dating. And I like to, for women that have listened to the podcast, it's called uprooting where you get out of relationship and you immediately start into another one. And so like it's maybe, maybe two weeks, maybe it's a month and you get right into another relationship. And it's like a pattern like that.

So that's how I was honestly up until I met my ex -husband. And then when we got divorced, I instantly started doing that again. I went back with an ex -boyfriend, started dating him for a few months and I was like, this is bad, dumped him, went with someone else like two months later. And it was a complete cycle of shit. And so for me, it wasn't until I realized, I have a problem with...

this uprooting thing, I'm sabotaging myself. I'm not really learning. I'm just like seeking in that not feeling, not wanting to feel alone. And so when I stopped doing that and started really analyzing what I wanted, I was like, my God, I've never dated before. And I'm like, gosh, how old was I? 36. And I'm like, I have been married. I know what divorce is like. I don't know what dating is. And so I remember my first few dates.

where within three dates of dating someone, they're like, we should be in a relationship. And I was like, you are right. We should be in a relationship. And then I was like, wait a minute. I came on here to learn how to date and not be in a relationship right away and figure out what I really liked and what I really wanted. And that process does take a lot longer than people think. And so having patience is so important, which when you're talking about getting them to really figure out what they want, I think that most men are

Molly Connolly (27:41.134)

patient or sometimes nervous, it seems like that maybe that actually is more beneficial to them than sometimes the ladies that are on the app, sometimes wanting to get into the relationship right away and not realizing they need more time to date.

Yeah, and Diane and I, like when we work with men, we really try and, like she was saying before, help them reframe their expectations for dating. It's a lot of pressure to put on yourself and another person if you are looking for love, which is amazing. Like that's awesome. And we want that for you, but it is a lot of pressure to put on yourself and another person for a profile, for a first date, whatever it is of like,

is this the person who is like my one true love? You know, like, if you go into every looking at someone's profile, every conversation, every date with that lens and only that lens, then there's a lot of pressure on it to like know immediately, you know, are we connected? Do we have a lot of things to talk about? Is there no awkwardness? Like that's...

not real necessarily. Like there's gotta be that trial period and all of the things that Diane talked about where you can say it was a successful interaction, even if you're not sure about if you love them or not, you know? Like all of those things add up to making that decision and to like on the journey to finding love. yeah. Speaking of pressure, I mean, I remember when I first started online dating, I would do things like,

It was one of the very first people he messaged me or we matched and I didn't know. So I was trying to be polite and I was like, hey, no, thank you. I didn't know. And he wrote back this scathing message about like, you're not supposed to do that. If you're not interested, you just move on. But I didn't know. So, you know, I worked really hard to figure out a lot of things about online dating and came as to things like if

Molly Connolly (29:44.27)

you're messaging with someone and they unmatch unexpectedly. Yeah, those feelings can. Those feelings, especially at first, because it's so intimidating to put yourself out there and it's so vulnerable also to collect pictures of yourself and put yourself out for other people to swipe through, right? And then they drop off and unmatch with you. I would be like, was it me? Did I do something? Did I? Right. And all of that like self -evaluation stuff until I learned,

This is just how it is, right? It doesn't have to be so much pressure to find the right person and to find love. And it doesn't have to be this thing. And I used to spend like 30 minutes, you know, just responding to one message that someone sent me, right? Cause I'm overthinking it all. So taking some of that pressure off and letting it be a fun process of I'm getting to know someone. I'm not finding my person. That may happen. I may find love.

but I'm here to experience life and learn something about myself and meet new people as a starting place for someone. Yeah. And in the beginning, I was just like taking things so seriously. And I, you know, like same thing, like Diane was saying, I would agonize over like, if I was going to match with someone or not, I really was like, do I want to meet with this person? I was like, it's just like, we haven't even matched. We haven't even talked, nothing. And I was like agonizing over these decisions.

And then I would see my friends give their phones to other friends and like their friends would do the swiping and like see who they matched with and like maybe have a conversation, maybe not. Like who knows, but it was just like, people were just like, this is supposed to be fun. This is supposed to be like a good time. And like, sure, maybe not everyone wants to give their phone to someone else to make those decisions. Maybe you are like, you know, more serious about it and that's okay, but.

just seeing other people have a different way of interacting with apps was like a relief for me because I was like, okay, I can, I cannot take this so seriously and I can still take it as seriously as I want to. Well, and the good thing about that too is just like reminding yourself that the other person across the screen is human as well as knowing everyone's behavior online is going to be semi -similar to you. So,

Molly Connolly (32:02.318)

We, if you do not catch an interest right away, that's normal. Our attention span right now has gone down to three seconds online. That's for Instagram, TikTok, anything. So if you were on an app, you got three seconds, your profile pic better be boom. To catch that attention for that person to say, I want to get to know them more at the same time. I think it was match .com actually did or match did a survey. I think it was.

2022, I could be wrong. I'll have to look it up. But 70 % or more people are okay with ghosting. And that's not just on the app. That's on first dates, that's on third and fourth dates. And so when I have clients, I get upset that they're like, my God, he never messaged me back. I'm like 70 % or more people are totally fine without having a conversation with another person again, because that's just what our culture is now used to. It's not right. Maybe you want to have that conversation and I recommend it to my clients.

have a prepared little thing that if something goes wrong, you can just like, you have it all ready to go and be like, I just really wasn't, didn't feel the connection or I didn't feel like we were really gonna be a good match after these last few dates. I really wish you the best of luck and hope you find love or what you're looking for. And for me, when I would do something like that, then I would block the person. You know, sometimes the things you have to do to move on. But what's great with what you guys are doing, it's like you're preparing them for those next steps.

to get into those conversations, to have those meaningful connections that lead to whichever way they're looking with their intentions. So. Yeah, and I always did the same thing and I still do. If I'm not interested or I'm ready to close this out, I will say it obviously in a very kind way. Hey, I do wish you all the best and we move on. But I do say something just because I feel the need personally like to

step into that void, like you said, that people are accustomed to ghosting. It is part of our culture, but I don't love it. So I try to actively work against it, especially in dating. It's already so hard. Like there's already so much going on for people. So just wishing people well and moving on, I think is such a beautiful thing. Yeah. And what I love most too about what you guys are doing is like,

Molly Connolly (34:25.454)

your business helps men in the short term and the long run, but it also is helping women. So it's like the side moment of, my God, this guy has a great profile. and that guy does too. All of a sudden there might be all these potential dates, the more men that you guys get to work with, especially in the St. Louis area. So I just wanted to make that clear for anybody else that's interested, maybe you guys would have to just travel.

Yeah. And it's like, as women who've been on dating apps in St. Louis, like we know what women want, right? We've had a lot of experience between the two of us. And, you know, because of that, we've become dating pros. Were you going to say something, Diane? I was just going to say that still makes me laugh owning that we're dating pros. We say it and we've said it for a long time. And it's so true. Like you don't become a pro at something when you do it once or twice. We've done this enough. And especially collectively between the two of us, we are dating pros, but

I say that and it's also just funny to me to acknowledge that again, like, yep, that is true about us and me. Well, and it's fun to think like the thing that you don't realize that you have experienced and sometimes gets to be the thing that you get to have the most fun with. I one of these days want to sit down and compare our spreadsheets. So because I'm like, I wonder if we have similar analysis of ways we do things just because

I went back and I looked at mine. I'm like, there's this one's from 2016. this one's from 2017, 2018, 2019. So it's like, I had this full analysis on different spreadsheet tabs. So yours is next level, Molly. If this person didn't need a certain amount of qualities from their profile, I wouldn't, I wouldn't message them back. Very, very bluntly. Yes. And that is what we hope to, that's where we hope to step in and help.

because that is the case. And I don't, we've talked about it. We don't think that it's intentional. We don't think that men are just really flippant, but they just need a little support. They need a little help. And especially from two women who've done this and seen a lot of things, we have some help that we can give and some advice and some rails that we can put around you and we can make you shine and look great. We wanna reflect who you are.

Molly Connolly (36:46.19)

And we can do that. You don't have to do this alone. Yep. And last but not least, I want to say this. I recently interviewed about 20 women, some in St. Louis, some in some different areas of the region. And the number one thing that they said that their reason why they're jumping off the apps is because they can't find quality men on the apps. And because of that, more than likely it's their profile. So.

the men that are listening today, if you are looking for, hypothetically, if your intention is for a girlfriend or someone semi -serious or a relationship, and you know that women already think that there are no quality men on the apps and they're jumping off, it's time for you to update your profile. And these two ladies can do that for you. And I highly recommend you work with them. So ladies, before we end out, what...

Can you please tell the listeners where they can find you? And you already mentioned the services, but I think you guys had one other thing you wanted to mention. You can find us on Instagram. Our handle is shift underscore dating lab shift underscore dating lab. Yeah. And we're offering 50 % off of services. If you mentioned reinventing the arena when signing up for services, see listening to this podcast is going to save you money, gentlemen, and a new profile.

All right, ladies, thank you so much for joining me today. This was great. I can't wait to hear how it goes with more men and maybe we'll have to bring them on to just chat about their experience. Thank you. Thank you, Molly. I appreciate it.