Do you feel constantly chased by your partner when it comes to your sex life?

Or do you feel like you're having to beg for sexual intimacy? Or maybe you've noticed the sexual desire between you and your partner has faded after the honeymoon phase?

You're not alone! According to a 2015 study from Current Sexual Health Reports, nearly 80% of couples struggle with desire discrepancy.

In today's episode I have Dr. Karin Calde joining me to share:

• What desire discrepancy is

• 2 kinds of sexual desire

• What impacts your sexual desire for your partner

• Plus, the "ah-ha" moment around sexual desire

Learn more and connect with Dr. Karin Calde:

⁠Dr. Karin Calde website⁠

⁠@theloveandconnectioncoach⁠ on Instagram

⁠Love Is Us Podcast⁠ on Spotify

Join her community for women who are struggling in their intimate relationships. Email her at ⁠karin@drcalde.com

As a former therapist and now a relationship coach, Dr. Karin Calde helps individuals and couples break old relationship patterns and create more joyful, fulfilling connections with one another and themselves.

Karin earned her Ph.D in Psychology from the California School of Professional Psychology located in San Francisco. She’s also an IFS (Internal Family Systems) practitioner with advanced training in sex and intimacy.

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TRANSCRIPT OF EPISODE

Molly Connolly (00:02.766)

Hey there, lady. Welcome back to another episode of reinventing the arena. I've been looking forward to recording this episode for you because I have a guest joining me today. She's a former therapist turned relationship coach. It's Karen Caldy. She helps people and couples break old relationship patterns and create more joyful, fulfilling connections with one another and themselves.

Plus Karen is trained in the internal family systems framework and has advanced training in sex and intimacy. Welcome to the podcast, Karen. Thank you for having me. I appreciate being here. of course. So like I mentioned earlier, before we were recording, I was personally moved by your story. When I learned more about you, can you share as much or as little as you would like and how that led you to becoming a relationship coach?

Yeah, and I appreciate that question because I do think that these stories have such a big impact on why we do what we do, especially as coaches, I think. But yeah, when I was 10, my parents had been fighting a little bit on and off over the years, but that fighting got more intense and they ended up splitting up. And at around the same time, there was a lot of other stuff.

that happened, there were a lot of other losses. So my cat died, my dog died, my brother left for college, and then my sister left for college. And then my parents thought I should change schools. And this was all within about a year's time. And so, and it wasn't like I grew up not remembering that, right? But it was only when I was older that I realized the impact that that actually had and that that

that so much of my life came from those experiences. And then I had closed my practice because I realized that I still needed to do more self -work for me to really be there for other people. And so I closed my practice and yeah, I started doing my own work and focusing on my parenting and my health. And then I ended up getting a divorce.

Molly Connolly (02:26.254)

And suddenly I found myself on the other side of what happened to me when I was little. And I was terrified that I was going to cause my kids the same amount of trauma and stress that I had endured as a kid. So I put all of my energy into figuring out how to do this differently. And I...

You know, fortunately, I was a big believer in therapy as it was. So I already had a therapist, all my kids had therapists. My husband got into therapy, we had group therapy. And if I had known about coaching at that point, I'm sure that would have been in the mix as well. You know, did lots of reading, listening to podcasts, all those types of things. And we really did do it very differently and not traditionally. And we started

my husband and I ended up staying friends. And, you know, I've talked to my kids since then about it and them saying that at first they were really scared and thought this was going to be awful and horrible. And they learned pretty quickly that, that it wasn't that all these stories that they had heard about divorce were from people who had different experiences than they had. And, they pretty

quickly learned that it was going to be okay. And I am certain that the way that my ex -husband and I did it made all the difference in the world. that's fantastic. You don't hear that enough about how couples, when you go through divorce, like, I don't know very many that stay friends with their ex, even with having children.

Like that is such a responsible and mature place to be in, not even for the other person on the other side of the relationship, but for their kids as well. I'm divorced and my ex -husband and I do not talk. Like we don't even get to talk about anything from the past. We have no interconnection anymore. But with that said, what was the experience then for you at that time that started to transition you from, you know, you closed your practice.

Molly Connolly (04:45.646)

and moved you closer into coaching? Well, when I was ready to go back to work, I really cast my net widely. I wanted to explore what else there was for me. And I wasn't sure that I wanted to be a therapist again. There were a lot of different reasons for that. But so I dipped my toe into a lot of different things. And I finally ended up

discovering academic coaching. So working with kids and mostly teens and young adults to help them feel like they belonged in school, on that they could learn in a way that their brains could absorb it and enjoy it and create some balance in their life, all those things. So, you know, I've worked with a lot of kids with anxiety and ADHD and those types of challenges.

And pretty soon I realized that while I loved coaching and I loved the kids that I worked with, it wasn't an exact fit, but I did know that I wanted to do more coaching. So that's when I went back to school and got my coaching certificate and really looked at what was something super meaningful for me. And I eventually started working with step -cops, step families because

that was something that I, you know, you know what I did well? I did that one well and really felt like I could help others with that as well. And then, but then I ended up kind of broadening a little bit to couples and then kind of refocusing. And so I'm mostly working with couples who are struggling with sex and intimacy and specifically about desire. And then also working with, and this is

really lighting me up recently is working with women who are struggling in their relationships and are feeling really stuck and feeling scared and not sure what to do. And that can be your question. Yeah, you did. Of course you did. I mean, that is a beautiful path of thinking how your experiences as a 10 year old has just amplified in different directions. And then your personal experience of

Molly Connolly (07:07.758)

You know, how your divorce went and helping step couples, and then really even shifting of those next deeper levels of having people connect with each other in a relationship and then even further going internal and connecting with yourself when you feel stuck and trying to figure out what to do next. Because in relationships, I know that we get stuck in numerous ones, but when you're in a romantic relationship, especially a committed one, it can be a little tricky. So, and then sex and intimacy is such a topic that

depending on how you were raised, what your beliefs are and everything, it can be such a sticky and difficult topic, let alone to discuss with a partner or even someone outside of your inner circle. So now that I think about it. But when I was doing my residency after I graduated from, I had my PhD and I was opening up a private practice as a resident and I had a supervisor and he was a sex therapist.

And so he started getting me into doing that work. And I started, so I took some classes back then. And then since that time, wanting to update my knowledge, I've taken some more classes as well so that I feel like I still know what I'm talking about. So, you know, specifically taking classes in areas such as desire and sex and midlife and aging. Like you, I'm one of those.

voracious learners. So I'm always reading lots of books. So reading from other therapists and sex therapists like Ian Krenner and Esther Perel and Emily Naguski and Marty Klein, all those people. And it's really fun. It's really fun to learn about this because we don't really learn about it otherwise unless we're very intentional about it. of course. And like the only times we really learn anything about

Sex is usually like sex education in high school or even a little bit about your body when you were maybe fifth or sixth grade, especially as a woman, when you're all of a sudden like, what is this? It's a period. Okay. What does all that mean? And what does that all entail? And it's so fit. That's really the biology that we're learning about, right? Not about, healthy sexual relationship, you know, you want to say maybe how to say no, we're not really learning, the intricate.

Molly Connolly (09:31.662)

the intricacies of having a sexual relationship with another person. Of course. And then even just thinking about even more about the science of some things where it's like about the hormones and how that affects your brain and like, how does that affect your emotions? Like all those other things that, you know, I just met, have met someone who was talking to me about that. And I was like instantly interconnected with like, okay, well, when I was younger, my hormones were like this. And if she's like, of course that's like a lot of people.

And that made your brain do this and you have addiction tendencies when you break up and you have this and you just sit back and you're like, I might've been a crazy teenager when my boyfriend broke up with me. No, there's actually biology that goes into that too. And those emotions and how our body even reacts with it and triggered later. Like you mentioned before we were talking, we started talking and recording was the somatics that you're even getting into.

and how that even plays into sexual sex and intimacy. I can't even have them in layers. Absolutely. I mean, in order to really engage in sexual activity and have it be satisfying at all, or to be able to reach an orgasm, usually we have to be pretty relaxed. And so that means our nervous system needs to be in a place where we can be calm and connected.

somebody. So yeah, absolutely. So there's a lot to look into obviously, you know, in between sex and intimacy and relationships. And some of it I haven't even heard of until I met you. And I had to look up desire discrepancy to be able to recognize it in my past and current relationship. So from my experience, and even hearing from friends and clients, this is something that's been labeled as like an attraction issue, or a woman's issue. Will you share

the fun details of desire, discrepancy, and how that shows up in a relationship? Absolutely. And it is a big topic. But essentially, it's mismatched desire levels between partners, where one wants to have sex more than the other. So that's the basic definition of what desire discrepancy is. And just about every couple experiences this.

Molly Connolly (11:50.606)

Maybe not at the beginning of a relationship when everything is really exciting and you can't keep your hands off of one another. But then when things start to calm down and you experience life, then other things and other factors come into play and influence how much you want your partner. I mean, first, I just want to acknowledge that I have been on both sides of this. I have been the partner that had low or no desire.

And I've been the partner that wants sex a lot more. So I have a lot of empathy for the couples that come in for both people. I know what that's like. And I have no interest in pathologizing because it is all normal. And there's a reason why you experience desire in the way that you do. And if you want to shift it, there are lots of options. There's so much that influences desire.

But the one thing that often happens really has not so much to do with a level of desire, but rather the kind of desire. And sometimes when I talk about this, it just clicks for people and can make a big difference. Any of your listeners have ever read Emily Nagoski's work? She wrote the book, Come As You Are. It's fantastic. I highly recommend it. And she made this concept

more accessible to people. It wasn't something that she created, but it's something that she explains really well. And basically there are two kinds of desire. There is a spontaneous desire, and this is the kind of desire that we see in movies where they just, the couple sees each other across the room and boom, it's on, the sparks are flying and they have this wild passionate sex, right? And it is something that we can experience where we're just

hanging out with our partner and we're just turned on by them, you know? But it seems like it comes out of the blue, right? It doesn't take a lot to spark that. Both men and women experience this. Men tend to experience this kind of desire a little bit more. Then there is responsive desire. And in responsive desire, what this is about is someone who may not necessarily be particularly interested in having sex in the moment.

Molly Connolly (14:16.462)

but they're willing. And they know that, you know, they've had pleasurable sex in the past with their partner. So they're like, yeah, I'm game. And then they start to engage in sex and then the desire comes. So pleasure comes first and then it's the desire. But what oftentimes happens is that when we experience that, we think that there's something wrong with us.

think it's supposed to be spontaneous, that we just want it. But in fact, it's just a different way of experiencing desire. Women, again, can have either one. They tend to experience responsive desire a little bit more. And when we age, we tend to experience more responsive desire. Both men and women can experience both from day to day. So that's something to also understand.

a lot of women, if for a lot of women and their partners, it can be an aha moment. Like, that's what's going on. So I just want to throw that out there first. That makes a lot of sense. And I'm just going to say this quickly too, is that I've been on both sides as well in case other listeners are like, well, just to completely normalize it. And I definitely can agree as getting older, the spontaneous side of me doesn't happen as much. I have to be fully present.

I have to have my mind to be clear when I'm stressed out. I am more likely that person where it's like, okay, let me get focused and interested. It's going to take me like two hours to really get interested in focus, or you need to start dropping hints on Monday so that I'm interested by Saturday. You know, there's just so much, that comes into play with that desire that can, subconsciously block it, you know?

Yeah, and a lot of what you're talking about is context. So it's like, what's the context? And so that is another thing that impacts desire. Are you stressed? Did you have a bad day? And so you just don't really feel like having sex when you're stressed. Now, some people do like having, they feel like it's a stress reliever and that's fine too. But we all have a certain degree of sensitivity. So our brains are always looking for cues

Molly Connolly (16:41.422)

as to yes, this is a good time and place and person to have sex with. Our brains always are looking for that. And our brains are also looking for cues to say it's not a good time. So this is kind of akin to a gas pedal and a break in our nervous systems when it comes to sex. Some people have really sensitive gas pedals. Some people have really sensitive breaks. Some people can have both. Trauma can actually put on the break

pedal, even though you have a sensitive gas pedal, and that just kind of stops it all. So all of the different things that hit those gas pedals can then influence how much desire we're feeling in the moment. So other things that can affect that is how we're feeling about our partner. yeah. That is a huge one. And oftentimes when things aren't going well in the bedroom, it's because things aren't going well in the relationship. Not always, frequently. Can also be things like...

medication and there are a lot of medications that affect your desire levels and your interest in sex. Your health has a big impact in your mental health. Your beliefs about sex. So if you grew up in a household where sex was either not talked about at all or if it did come up, it was described as dirty and bad and you should not have it.

And then all of a sudden when you're married, you are supposed to have it. It can be a really hard switch to flip. And sometimes people get stuck in that. That makes a lot of sense. Yeah. And then of course there are all kinds of body changes and hormones. And I mean, women's bodies want one thing one day and might want another thing another day. Whereas men's, men are usually pretty steady. Yeah. Men don't have...

Period. So they don't have all those up and down, even with the hormones as much. So, you know, one day I crave chocolate the next minute. Okay. Maybe in a few days all would like to have sex. It's very sporadic in a sense of the craving I could see, but yeah. Sorry to interrupt you. Was there anything else you wanted to add to that? Sorry. Just one other thing, and that is a mindset. So as coaches, you know, that's something, you know, another area that a lot of coaches can help with because

Molly Connolly (19:06.446)

And this is often influenced by those beliefs that we grew up with and the different things that impacted how we view sex. Is sex a good thing? Is sex a bad thing? Do I believe that I can have sex with my partner until death? Or is it over when you hit a certain age? I mean, there's so much that has to do with how we think about it. And we know that in couples who

believe that having an ongoing regular sexual relationship with one another is great for your relationship. And there's no end in sight. You can have it into your twilight years. They're more likely to do that and enjoy it. So mindset is really important here too. You know, you just clicked a few things with me too about mindset and beliefs here. And this wasn't a planned question, but I now have friends that are like,

well, now I have three kids or I have two kids and they're getting old enough. And so we can't have sex because they're going to hear us. Or we're getting to the point where I don't like my body after having children. And so I'm not really interested. So we have these moments as women that I feel like we don't necessarily communicate it to our partners. And my husband and I aren't going to be having kids. So it's something that I haven't experienced, but I watched my friends go through and I almost

you know, I almost feel sad for them because I know them when they were younger and they were very, you know, wanting to have that intimacy and that sexual desire with their partner that they are now married to. And it's one of those where how would you work with a couple that has that issue going on where she just doesn't feel comfortable in her body anymore. And it's mostly because of, you know, having kids and the husband's like, but I've loved you the same way. Yeah, absolutely.

And that's another thing that can affect desire is body image. So a lot of it can be work with her and learning how to accept who she is and getting at the core of that body image, the body image issue for her. So that's part of the work. Another part of the work is, you know, yeah, when you are, you've had kids and you are just so tired by the end of the day.

Molly Connolly (21:32.878)

There's so much going on in your life and you just can't imagine someone else touching you when you've had your kids climbing on you all day. So it's totally understandable that she would be less interested. And it's also understandable that he wants that connection with you. And oftentimes that is what it's about for him. Not always, but oftentimes, you know, we tend to say, the guy, he just wants sex all the time and he just thinks with his penis and blah, blah.

And it's like, well, there's usually a reason. You know, sometimes it's to avoid dealing with hard feelings. And sometimes it can be about power and control, but usually it's because he really does want to connect. So learning how to connect in maybe some more creative ways. So it doesn't just have to be intercourse. You know, it could be that they have a...

stroking session or mutual massages or figure out other ways to be intimate or have an intimate date without expectation that anything's going to happen. Yeah. So there are different ways that we can help people kind of reframe things. Yeah. And you know, you also, the way you were starting to say something about like how the kids are, you know, my friend, she's like, they're a variety of ages, but they're still always going to her for things. And I'm so

you know, climbing all over her. Yes. And like her having to pick them up. But also sometimes I've watched her husband and he's like watching from afar and he it's, I almost feel like he feels disconnected from his kids because they're asking for her and he's realizing so much that she's not necessarily able to pay attention to him the way that they had before. So it's even just a way to be reaching out and being like, I just miss you.

and he's wanting the connection that the kids have. So the way you explain that really just made me have this moment of aha. So I'm like, she's going to have to listen to this episode so she can get all the cues so that she can understand where her husband might be coming from in a sense without putting him on the spot or making him feel uncomfortable. And maybe for her to carve out a little time for herself to get that intimacy thought and sexual desire going so that

Molly Connolly (23:57.102)

she can have that connection to. Yeah. And also making sure that it's not just about him. Right. Very much so. So often in our culture, that's what we prioritize and make it all about. This is a part, should be a partnership. This needs to be good for both people. And so figuring out how to get both of their needs met is really central to the work as well. of course. Thank you for hitting on all those. So of course,

this causes these things can cause tension in relationship. And you brought up how it can affect couples over time, but have you ever worked with someone or a couple where it's actually gotten worse? And what ways have you helped your clients like return back to a center to overcome these issues of desire discrepancy? Yeah, what frequently can happen is there can be a chasing dynamic that goes on.

yeah, that makes sense. So we have the stereotype, which is not completely untrue, is that the man chases the woman and the woman distances and the man chases her more. And that cycle can be damaging and it can happen in other areas of the relationship too. And so really it's about first breaking that cycle. And maybe it's about, we're not going to have sex for...

maybe, I don't know, it depends on what's gonna happen or what feels good to the couple. So that, you know, the one that's being chased can have some relief and can start to feel more in control so that it's not this unbalanced power dynamic. And then it's about returning them to pleasure and starting small and making sure they can each...

explore what pleasure means to them and there are different ways to do that. And then, you know, them each having an opportunity to be in charge of this is what I want for this sex date that we're going to have on Friday. This is what I'd like to do and how I'd like it to start. And so, yeah, so walking them through kind of some different options for their sex scripts, that would be some things that I would

Molly Connolly (26:22.35)

I would help them with. Yeah, that makes so much sense. And the fact that you brought up two things that another friend of mine does, she sets dates and it's not having that expectation like you mentioned before, like having those intimate dates with no expectations, of course, like they're great, but then also knowing if it does lead to sex, it's a great moment for them to connect. And you even called out things that sometimes women don't like to do. And it's especially for the women that I coach.

ambitious women, sometimes if they're a perfectionist or they might be suffering some issues of pride, they are like, well, my partner should know exactly what I'm thinking. If he was good at this, he would already know what I want. And that is a huge thing to break through because communication and relationship is so important in all areas, but especially in sexual desire and intimacy and pleasure, like that is something you have to communicate when you are

you know, first intimate with someone, it's not going to be perfect. And so we have to have those discussions. And so I like how you brought that up of like, this is what I would like. This is how I would like you to start off because sometimes as women, I feel that some of the women that I coach, they would never feel 100 % comfortable approaching their partner like that. When women aren't able to approach their husbands like that,

Where would, where do you go? Do you go into the limiting beliefs? Do you go to the mindset? Do you do a combination to help them break through this moment so they can actually get their, their needs met? Yeah. I mean, I would probably talk about beliefs first and how, we can't mind read. We just can't mind read. And, if this is a, I would also help people to

really get at the root of why it's hard to talk about. There are probably some fearful parts of themselves that are, you know, if I say something, then that's really vulnerable or that might alienate my partner and it might feel risky to their connection. Like I was saying earlier is if we...

Molly Connolly (28:45.006)

you know, very few of us grew up in households where sex was an acceptable topic of conversation. And then we're expected to just be able to talk about it. It's so taboo in our society. And so, you know, like I have an exercise that basically can help get people warmed up to that conversation. So where they talk about things that are a little less risky and they gradually get to these more personal topics.

Sometimes that can help. but I think exploring what's at the heart of that block around talking about it can go a long ways. yeah. I can only imagine all the ways that could go. So I love how you also brought up connection because connection is extremely important, but so is support in relationships. So I know you're building this community of women who are struggling in their intimate relationships. Can you talk?

more about the value of finding and support when you're faced with these challenges? Well, I just think about when I was in this, at this crisis point in my marriage and feeling very alone and not knowing which friends, which friends can I really talk to? It can be very isolating. And so I want to create a community of women who are at this point where like, do I want to leave or do I want to stay?

and helping them become the strongest, healthiest versions of themselves so that they can make that decision from a place of real clarity and strength. And then whichever way they go, they're going to be in a much better position to either really dive into that relationship and come to it from a place of connection and love and compassion rather than need.

or reenter the dating pool one day and finding a better match. So yeah, that's the community that I'm currently building. I'm looking for some founding members who want to get in at the ground level and give me some feedback on what works for them. I'll be giving all kinds of resources in that group and yeah, building that community so the women can support one another. Because I think that that's

Molly Connolly (31:09.966)

so often where we can get our strength is when we create community for ourselves. yeah. And the empowerment alone and then doing it together, just the combined empowerment and you know, even the self -acceptance, knowing that you're not alone and you're with other women that are going through either the same or similar situation as you.

and having sounding boards of being like, yeah, that happened to me too. Or I can only imagine how that would affect me in my relationship. So I cannot wait to hear how that goes for you because I think what the community you're building is so important. It's definitely needed. I will say personally, like when I went through my divorce, I didn't have any friends that had been divorced yet.

or any friends, because I got married at 25, I got divorced at 28 and most of my friends were having babies. And so our lives were very different. And so if you are a woman right now, that's going through any sort of, thought process, like Karen was talking about where you're deciding, like, do you want to stay or go in a relationship? You should go into Karen's community because this is such an important

point in your life and transition that you need to be supported in. And I'm just speaking from personal experience and having to do all that on my own was so tough. So, and I don't know if that was similar for you and which is why you decided to probably have the community. So first of all, thank you so much for even bringing it up. I'm so happy for you. Anything else you want to share about the community before I ask everyone where they can find you? There is so much responsibility put on to women to

make their relationships work. And it can be pretty overwhelming. And so I'm hoping that this can help them with that. Yeah, I'll be bringing in experts as well to talk about all the things, relationships, but yeah, I'm just hoping to create a safe space for people where they can get some answers and some tools and can learn about themselves so that they can create.

Molly Connolly (33:28.974)

the life they want and finally feel the love that they're really looking for. That's fantastic. Well, Karen, I loved having you here. Can you tell everyone like where they can find you, where they can learn more about you if they want to sign up to join the community, anything like that? Yeah, so you can go to my website, which is drcalde .com. Calde is C -A -L -D -E. I'm on Instagram where I'm

the Love and Connection coach. You can send me a DM. If you want to join the community, maybe the best thing is to send me an email. Fantastic. And for those listening, she also has a podcast. What was the podcast title again? yeah, I have. I do have a podcast called Love is Us, and it's all about relationships. Well, thank you so much for joining me. And ladies, like I said, go check her out. I'm going to include all of the links, everything that she provided within the show notes.

And yes, thank you so much for being here, Karen. This was a pleasure. Thank you so much, Molly. I appreciate the work you're doing.